The Force Awakens

[Droo]

I don't think it's being an ungrateful dick to call a turd a turd. It's nice that Lucas has people who support the choices he made for the prequels, but, while I most definitely got swept up in the mania of every prequel upon its release (because, let's face it, at the time it was the only major Star Wars thing going on), I will never deny that I feel his writing and directing to be poor, or that I find the prequels themselves rather soulless and infantile, and that a big part of that was because of his over-reliance on CGI and not having anyone around him with the balls to say "Hey, George, this is bad idea." And why should I deny any of that? I'm not being disingenuous about my feelings - as far as I'm concerned, they're poor films - and it's not like I need to protect the feelings of a man who has made the most beloved and enduring movie franchise in the history of cinema and made more money than I can ever dream of. Fair play to him on his successes, but I'm never going to not criticise something because it's nice to say something nice.

[Jaden Luka]

I was speaking more generally about the Star Wars fandom, rather than about us specifically. There's far more criticism in the Star Wars fandom than in most others, and we are for the most part a heck of a lot harder to please. We're a lot harder to please and a lot more "mean" with our dislike than Star Trek fans, for example. There are Star Wars fans who complain that The Force Awakens is too much like the prequels. And, the first step in every critical analysis of anything Star Wars (even stuff that Lucas isn't involved in) is to just really hammer home the point that everything Lucas did was terrible. There's making a valid point, and then there's rubbing it in and being a dick about it. Broadly speaking, Star Wars fandom errs towards the latter more than is fair.

Also, there's a lot of people who consider Revenge of the Sith to be in the top 50% of Star Wars movies, and people have some pretty solid points for thinking that. There's a difference between "a turd is a turd" and "I think this is a turd". It's not disingenuous to voice your dislike, but there's this attitude that "the Prequels are shit and disagreeing is not acceptable", which is a little iffy.

I guess it just irks me that, even amid our massive enjoyment of The Force Awakens, we still have to complain about the prequels. It feels like being a Star Wars fan can't function without some degree of repeated negativity. Is this some weird "the light cannot exist without the darkness to contrast it" thing?

[Droo]

I imagine a big part of the reason is that, in terms of cinema, they are the first obvious point of comparison. There was definitely a sense of relief, the night I went to see it, from everyone I spoke to. And, because they are the films that most recently came before, I felt a strong need to share with others that "Hey, don't worry, guys: it's nothing like the prequels." It's nice to be a Star Wars fan, to leave the cinema, and genuinely be able to rejoice with other fans.

[Darth Turbogeek]

we still have to complain about the prequels

We most certainly do because the prequels are just crap and it's really obvious how they could have been a whooooooole load better. And frannkly its the non Star Wars fans who are harsher - they dont have an oar in this and they are savage. Star Wars fas are more willing to forgive.

Well, some of us are. I sure as hell arent. The prequels got shown up as just bad filmaking to me when I got a clue by watching Peter Jackson create a complete miricle with the Lord of the Rings. And there is just so many easy ways Lucas could have made the prequels so much better - fan edits of the prequels are just plain better. RLM with that amazing deconstruction. If anything, what fans did with the prequels is what is remarkable, not what Lucas threw at the screen.

Right now, I'm just glad the stink of the prequels is gone and we have something to be genuinely proud of by any metric.

[CMJ]

I recently watched all six, and I am even more convinced that the AOTC and ROTS are better than ROTJ. All of the "finally a SW film that I don't have to defend" stuff was said after both came out. I am not saying there weren't some people that did not like them at the time, of course there were, no movie is univerally loved. Hell, same with TPM truth be told. The summer of 1999, I was one of the hardest people on it, and now I end up defending the damn thing...that's how far the opinion swung. When Clones was released the reaction was mostly "this makes up for TPM!" The same process repeated itself for ROTS...a lot of "SW is back" stuff.

I really liked TFA, but it's #5 (ahead of ROTJ and TPM) in the series for me at this point. It could move up, but the more I think on it the more I'm annoyed by the plot beats being so close to ANH. It's too much of a remake and creatively limp for me to truly embrace.

[Jedieb]

I'm in the middle of rewatching AOTC. I'm reminded of how excited I was when it came out. It felt like such a step up from TPM that I was sure it was going to hit $500M and out TPM. I'm not having that bad of a time re-watching the prequels right now. I just got done watching Anakin slaughter the Tusken Raiders. It was a great scene and his mother's death actually had me tearing up. But my gawd, the scenes between him and Portman are just dreadful. They have practically no chemistry. And I've said it before, Padme comes across as a horrible human being IMO opinion. He confesses to killing women and children and all she has is; "To be angry is to be human." Really, that's your takeaway? Yeah, that'll make you fall "truly, deeply, in love" with someone. Ugh.

[CMJ]

What's the protocol on guessing what's gonna happen in Episode VIII on the board? That's sorta spoilerish right?

There was a theory that I did not think had much validity when I first read it, but listening to the score closely, I think John Williams gave us a huge hint at where things may be going. Kind of reminds me of when he made Palpatine's theme the celebration music in TPM.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Feel free to start an Ep 8 speculation thread in the Star Wars subforum. Just make sure that, if you write something you think might be spoilerish, use the spoiler tags. You can also put regular brackets around words to keep them out of the feed in the 'what's new' tab.

[Jedieb]

What's the protocol on guessing what's gonna happen in Episode VIII on the board? That's sorta spoilerish right?

There was a theory that I did not think had much validity when I first read it, but listening to the score closely, I think John Williams gave us a huge hint at where things may be going. Kind of reminds me of when he made Palpatine's theme the celebration music in TPM.

I hope you've started this thread already! Part of what I love about TFA is that there seem to be clues as to where the story is headed all over the place!

[Rev Solomon]

Speaking of subjective, TPM is my favorite of the prequels. It has the highest ratio of "stuff that was fun" to "stuff that made me cringe" of any of them, and as the first in the trilogy it isn't as encumbered by a bloated, poorly executed storyline. Seeing a Jedi master/padawan relationship for the first time was a kick, and there was far more spark between Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor than there ever was between McGregor and Christensen. The podrace was exciting and imaginative, even though many of its trappings were awful (the two-headed announcer, the cartoonish alien pilots). There are a few great little moments between Padme and Qui-Gon ("The Queen wouldn't approve!" "The Queen doesn't need to know." "Well, I don't approve.") that show more character than the other two movies combined. And then there's the Maul duel, which despite its disappointing ending is absolutely sublime, and is unlike anything else in the Star Wars franchise.

Was I disappointed in the Phantom Menace? Oh heck yes. It's unfocused, undisciplined, full of plot holes, and its missteps haunt us through the other two movies. But I would much rather watch it than Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith.

[Darth Turbogeek]

I'm in the middle of rewatching AOTC. I'm reminded of how excited I was when it came out. It felt like such a step up from TPM that I was sure it was going to hit $500M and out TPM. I'm not having that bad of a time re-watching the prequels right now. I just got done watching Anakin slaughter the Tusken Raiders. It was a great scene and his mother's death actually had me tearing up. But my gawd, the scenes between him and Portman are just dreadful. They have practically no chemistry. And I've said it before, Padme comes across as a horrible human being IMO opinion. He confesses to killing women and children and all she has is; "To be angry is to be human." Really, that's your takeaway? Yeah, that'll make you fall "truly, deeply, in love" with someone. Ugh.

I can remeber coming out of seeing AOTC and thinking YESSSSSS SO MUCH BETTER

Subsequent screenings proved to me it was still shit, just watchable shit rather than unwatchable shit. And I did a rewatch a few weeks ago, AOTC really also is bloody awful. ROTS I think... ehhh okay it's passable with some good parts. Again, I would refer to the RLM reviews for a true breakdown on why they still both really arent a patch on the originals.

The one lesson the prequels taught me was NEVER judge a movie on the first view. I can love something but when I cast a critical eye, it falls. I've done that test twice this year - Mad Max : Fury Road and now TFA now I have seen it a time or two more. Both francises I have a deep love of, both I walked out super hyped up. Fury Road absolutly passes the critical rewatch with flying colours (Literally the best action movie in the last ten years) and now I think TFA passes the critical rewatch. In fact I notied a lot of the callbacks to the orginals less and a lot of the small details more that really make the movie a total pleasure.

The theory that Rey is Obi-Wan's Granddaughter? After noticing the ObiWan voice speaking to her.... yes, VERY possible. And makes sense - a granddaugher of ObiWan v a Anakin grandchild? There is a lot of imagery int he flashbacks that suggest it works too. The obvious answer is she's Luke's daughter.... just seems too obvious

The real thing that makes TFA work is that it not only stands alone but also sets up the next trilogy so well - so much of TFA is superb but I have to say the music score was.... just not good. That's the one thing that TFA really fell down on - I'll argue with anyone that TFA is definatly a better movie than the any prequel but I'm not defending the music - and I was listening to get musical clues to Rey. Just nothing that jumps out (Some remix of Luke's theme of course) but honestly there was nothing like the March or Duel of the Fates. That is my only issue with TFA as the prequels and the originals really had some standout relationships with the score and visuals / characters - this is missing in TFA.

A movie doenst need a good relationship between it's score and the visuals to be excellent but to see it go missing in TFA when it's been a highlight of Star Wars is jarring.

[Jedieb]

The one lesson the prequels taught me was NEVER judge a movie on the first view. I can love something but when I cast a critical eye, it falls. I've done that test twice this year - Mad Max : Fury Road and now TFA now I have seen it a time or two more. Both francises I have a deep love of, both I walked out super hyped up. Fury Road absolutly passes the critical rewatch with flying colours (Literally the best action movie in the last ten years) and now I think TFA passes the critical rewatch. In fact I notied a lot of the callbacks to the orginals less and a lot of the small details more that really make the movie a total pleasure.

You're right, the first view can sometimes fool you. I really believe that when the dust settles, TFA is going to remembered as a successful film. I had my 4th viewing last night. I finally got to see it with my 17 year old son. I think I actually enjoyed it more than the first 3 times I saw. I'm loving Ridley's performance more and more. She's simply amazing in this movie. The characters we're watching are having FUN, and so am I.

This movie is so damn good that even dogs love it.

[Darth Turbogeek]

You're right, the first view can sometimes fool you. I really believe that when the dust settles, TFA is going to remembered as a successful film. I had my 4th viewing last night. I finally got to see it with my 17 year old son. I think I actually enjoyed it more than the first 3 times I saw. I'm loving Ridley's performance more and more. She's simply amazing in this movie. The characters we're watching are having FUN, and so am I.

I know a bunch of people who have never seen a Star Wars movie until last week who have seen TFA multiple times and loved it. Successful, yeah I think that's a given

Daisy Riidley is an absolute gem. Oh and thinking of gems The confession Finn makes is made all the better for Rey's reaction. No hysterics, no I HATE YOU!!! that other movies would have had, just a believable dont go. And it really solidified Finn as a good man

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Rey's Theme / The Scavenger is a great piece of music. I really love it.

[Darth Turbogeek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bJpmMwrabo

That image in the video can not be an accident. The question anyway to me is not who Rey's father is... but the mother.