The Force Awakens Personal Review Thread- SPOILERS HERE
Time for a thread so we can gather all our insane ramblings and gushing non-biased fan reviews of the new movie!
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35 hours and change to go until I see the movie! *flees thread with fingers in ears and eyes closed*
edit: don't use italic or bold bbcode in your post, thank you!
Last edited by Lilaena De'Ville; Dec 18th, 2015 at 01:52:08 AM.
oh what a tangled web I weave
[ A properly bracketed post like this will be completely hidden from the Activity Stream and can contain spoilers like BB-8 is R2's son ]
WORD OF CAUTION! Don't try and use italics in your review - it makes the bracket thing go cranky, and parts of your review WILL show up in the activity feed!!!
[ Writing a review of this movie would probably consist of "You remember that part when the whole movie happened, and it was awesome?!" so forgive me if there are far too many exclamation points!
First off, the trailers. I cannot think of another movie that managed to use it's trailers to make the movie BETTER. There was dialogue in the trailers that wasn't actually in the final movie: so when it came to that final scene with Luke and Rey, it was even more agonising - you were even more desperate for Luke to admit that Rey is his daughter (she HAS to be, right?!), and that musical swell before the cut to credits without us even hearing a single word come out of Luke's mouth... it made that scene even better. The same is true on the planet with the cool temple - when you saw that spray off in the distance, you knew it was the fuck yeah X-Wing cavalry moment just a split second before you were shown, and that heightened the experience. Abrams knew that all of us nerds were going to sit there and dissect the trailer... so he used it as a narrative tool.
Second... this movie took what was great about all of the other Star Wars movies, and redelivered it in a more satisfying way. Taking out the shield generator so the Rebels can attack the superweapon, completing a trench run to take out the planet-killer before it destroys the Rebel base, the escape/rescue hijinks, that visceral Finn/Rey vs Kylo Ren duel that echoed Empire - it was a greatest hits of the Original Trilogy's best moments, delivered with the kind of visual impact that Lucas could only have dreamed of achieving back in the seventies. It also delivered a lot of what the Prequels set out to do as well, though: the battles had the sense of breathtaking scale that Lucas tried to deliver with the Clone Wars; but the technology is finally there to blend practical and special effects seamlessly... we got the spectacle, while at the same time preserving the lived-in realism that made the Originals so great. There was also a lot more humour involved, too - the Originals had their funny moments (usually Solo snark moments), and the Prequels added to that with Obi Wan's wit (and with he whosa not bein' named), but HOLY COW was this fun. The only thing better than Finn/Rey banter was that flippin' scene where Finn tries to convince BB-8 to play along. It took what the Prequels tried to do, and pulled it off.
Third, another unexpected thing drawn from the Prequels is Kylo Ren. There were moments where he channelled Hayden Christiansen (in a good way), little mannerisms and vocal notes that really made it believable that he was Anakin Skywalker's grandson. Yet at the same time, he's so very opposite. Without/before the Vader suit, Anakin was a hero and a warrior, but without his Kylo mask, Ben (damn you for toying with my EU feels, JJ!), is so NORMAL. It is all an act, all a mask. The idea that the good in Anakin was something that Vader and Luke tried to cling on to, whereas for Kylo Ren it's a curse that he wants to be rid of - and gets rid of, in the most SOUL CRUSHING WAY POSSIBLE. Unlike Vader, who was menacing as hell, the menace of Kylo Ren is (so far) all an act, all a pretence, and yet by having him kill Han it has ensured that the audience will hate him with a violent passion. Those injuries he sustained, that facial scar (similar to Anakin's)... in a way, we're seeing a dark reflection of Anakin becoming Vader all over again, but in a much more nuanced and drawn-out way. By proxy, JJ is delivering on what the Prequels didn't quite achieve with regards to the Skywalker story.
Lastly... arguably the most masterful thing that JJ Abrams has done - which shouldn't be surprising, now that I realise it's JJ FUCKING ABRAMS we're talking about here - is that, despite all of the speculation, the trailer dissections, the fan theories... Abrams only gave us SOME of the answers. The answers he gave - that Rey can use the Force, that Kylo Ren is Ben Solo (Ben Organa?), etc - he gave to us easy. He didn't try to milk out the Kylo Ren reveal as a cheap plot twist that we would have all seen coming - it was just a fact that was revealed over the course of the story. But we still don't know the story with Rey. We don't know who Max Von Sydow's character is, aside from the fact that he's been around long enough to still think of Leia as a Princess. We know even LESS about Finn: he was taken from his family and raised as a man with no name, but WHAT family? All that speculation, all of the context for where Supreme Leader Snoke fits in, all of the detail on what the rest of the galaxy is like, where the First Order comes from... there is so much more going on in the Star Wars universe than what we know, as it should be. I am desperately craving to know more. I feel more anticipation and excitement about Star Wars than before the movie started.
I cannot wait to see this again. If you're reading this, Mr Sturm, I hope you're up for another viewing while I'm over there! ]
Last edited by Captain Untouchable; Dec 17th, 2015 at 12:23:11 PM.
It's like that, and that's the way it is.
[ Okay, I feel I may end up in hot water and upsetting some people here, but truthfully? I was a bit disappointed.
That's not to say it's a bad movie. It's a lot of fun, it's got some great scenes, banter and action. It's probably the most fun I've had at the cinema in a while. But... I'm not convinced it's a great movie, and here's some of the reasons why.
It really felt like a 'greatest hits' package. While the prequels suffered by 'not being Star Wars' enough, here, the film was trying too hard to be 'Star Wars'. Almost every scene in the film felt like a reference, or inspired, by a previous film. Running around Starkiller Base, evading Stormtroopers? Running around the Death Star in ANH. Planting charges to blow up the plot gizmo on the killer superweapon? Planting the charges in the shield generator room. Ditch attack on killer spacestation, complete with trench run? ANH's finale. Dozens of quirky aliens in a cantina? ANH's cantina. Tiny quirky alien mentor who's ancient? Yoda. It goes on and on. Nearly every scene is a 'quote' of a scene from the original trilogy, and as such, the entire film feels unoriginal.
There also feels to be a distinct lack of world building. Lucas is a terrible writer and director, but an excellent world builder. The world of the Star Wars prequels always felt real and solid. Here, I still have no idea why there was a 'Resistance', why it was separate from the 'Republic', how the First Order had risen so suddenly and so powerfully, how they had a superweapon like they did, why nobody seemed to care THAT much when they used it to blow up an entire star system, how their soldiers work (for a brain washed soldier breaking his programming, Finn has a LOT of personality), etc. I know Abrams excels at only dropping hints, but here I felt like I needed more. If you're going to undo the end of Return of the Jedi after 30 years and tell us actually the galaxy was still in turmoil, I feel like I need some reason for it.
The characters themselves were great. I love the way they all felt like unguided kids, who didn't know this world they were in. Even Kylo Ren, who felt like he had some serious raw power, but a total lack of skill. Sort of like if somebody granted any of us Dark Side powers, we could use them, but we wouldn't necessarily know how to use them well. Certainly reflected in his lightsaber skills, failing to block bolts and things. And yet powerful enough to freeze things with the Force, people and blaster bolts. A cool new power we haven't seen before. And I liked his uncontrolled rage. Unlike Vader, who casually chokes people, he loses his temper and trashes things.
Finn is a great character, but I'm not sure I 100% 'buy' who he is. Brainwashed and a stormtrooper all his life, I'm not sure I buy the quirky, funny guy that he seems to be. But he's an awful lot of fun, well acted, and a very good counterpart in the movie. He does his job well and I want to spend more time with him as a character, but I'm not sure if I totally believe in his personality, as weird as that sounds. I like his inexperience though, and I quite like the jabs at his 'maleness'. He only uses the lightsaber because, of course he does, he's the male lead, right? Only for, of course, it be Rey who should.
Rey is also great. Again, the lack of her background being explained means I felt like I didn't have a great handle on either of the characters, but she's a very strong lead, well acted, and a lot of fun. She's very competent and fun to be around, and great to see her evolve. I love her naivety, it makes her a great character to be around, her wide-eyed wonder at everything, her utter reverence for the main characters and how much you yearn for her to become something else because her current life is so spectacularly rubbish.
BB-8 is awesome. If anything from this film will be remembered in 30 years time, it's him. Truly iconic and loveable.
I honestly can't wait to spend more time with all these characters, which is a real strength of the movie.
Han Solo and Chewbacca were fun too, feeling even closer than they ever have been before. The end for Han? Disappointing to see them go with something so predictable (at least, I felt it was), but it was always unlikely Harrison Ford would do all three films and he was a great character in this, an utterly different kind of mentor to the ones in the other films, still recognisably Han Solo while having moved on. His scenes with Leia were great too (although I found Carrie Fisher's voice very odd).
The issue for me was more one of plot than character. I felt that the film would have been a lot stronger without the whole 'Starkiller Base' 'Resistance attack' subplot (and it was a subplot, it didn't feel related to the main action, going on in the background). The story here was the characters, Rey's journey, Finn discovering he could be a hero, Han confronting Kylo, Kylo's decision, Snoke's manipulations, etc. The inclusion of a superweapon just felt too much like the old films, too self-referential and unnecessary. Blowing up the majority of the Republic in one shot? We never saw the Republic or had any involvement with it, so it was hard to care, and even the characters barely seemed to react to something so ridiculously major. And because we had no investment in the Resistance characters, it was hard to care about the space battle. (Poe Dameron had some great lines, and the potential to be fantastic, but in this film, he was too absent for too much of it).
I have high hopes for Episode VIII because I loved the characters and want to see more of them. But I'm also not as fond of this film as everybody else seems to be. I want to see it again to see if I enjoy it more now I know the general outline. Maybe it's just because it couldn't live up to the hype in my brain. We'll see. ]
Last edited by Loklorien s'Ilancy; Dec 18th, 2015 at 01:16:49 AM.
[ Bear in mind that The Force Awakens isn't "just" the next instalment of the Star Wars franchise. There's a whole lot that it needed to achieve. It needed to be an enjoyable movie (which it was). It needed to introduce a new set of heroes and make you care about them (which it did). It needed to convince the hardcore fans that Disney/etc has taken on board the faults and failings of the prequels, and is going to "get it right" this time. It also needs to serve as a launch pad for an entire reboot of the Star Wars franchise, to make sure that as many people as possible watch and enjoy all of the movies / TV shows / video games / theme parks / etc that Disney is going to be sinking it's money into. It's not just a movie, it's a proof of concept. It's a pilot episode. It's almost a reboot, just in a way that doesn't discard the original continuity.
What better way to win over a broad audience by taking some of the iconic bits and pieces from the Original Trilogy, and giving them better graphics, better dialogue, 21st century pacing and editing, and all that jazz? If you want someone to think a band is awesome, you give them the greatest hits CD: you show them the thing you love at it's absolute best, so maximise their chance of falling in love with it the same way. Abrams wants everyone - not just fanboys and fangirls, but casual viewers as well - to love Star Wars just as much as he does. It may not be as iconic or quotable as the originals, but damn if it doesn't make the "Star Wars is awesome!" argument loud and clear.
As for the world building, I thought it was explained pretty clearly by the opening crawl, and General Weasley's speech. There is a Republic now; and there is the First Order, which is Jedi-slaying, baby-stealing, brainwashing, child-corrupting, super Nazi levels of bad. But, the Republic isn't (for reasons that don't really matter) willing to go to war with the First Order, so Leia and her friends have gone to war instead, as the Resistance. It's like Americans fighting in WW2 before the US had officially joined the war.
And I'm not sure what you mean by blowing up the majority of the Republic in one shot. They killed a few planets in the same star system as the Resistance base (using the energy already stored in the base), and then gobbled up the sun in order to recharge and finish the job. Pretty sure the Republic is bigger than like, five planets? ]
PLEASE FIX BRACKETS
we haven't seen the movie yet so I'm not reading that but I can see part of the post in the Activity Stream so please fix it
thank you!!!
edit: extra italics make the brackets malfunction, Christin fixed it
Last edited by Lilaena De'Ville; Dec 18th, 2015 at 01:58:22 AM.
[Typing this from my iPhone so you'll have to excuse the typos.
I've got about 15 minutes before my second viewing, this one is a 3D showing.
I won't go over too much plot, it's still rattling around in my brain. As I'm getting ready for this next showing I'm struck by how WELL acted it was. The actors were actually allowed to friggin' EMOTE! Ford hasn't been this good in years. He and Chewie dominate the scenes they're in. We finally get to see these two characters work together. I loved their scenes.
Everyone who's described this as a Greatest Hits movie is spot on. Every time an old character shows up the theater erupts in applause. Well, gotta go. Tim Daly is reminding me I'm old and that apparently I can drop dead at any moment.]
"Dad, you killed the zombie Flanders!" "He was a zombie?"
[ Okay, I was amazed at how good the film was, I don't have a lot of time to write but a few quick thoughts; What Starkiller Base destroyed was probably the local sector fleet base and government, which would be what was directly supporting the Resistance itself, while the main capital of the Republic is still safe and intact. The new Star Destroyer design seems to harken back to the days of the Venator, acting as more of a carrier then anything else. The TIE Fighter they stole seems to be an officer's model, since none of the later TIE Fighters ever used additional lasers or missiles from what I saw. Only real disappointment in the movie so far is that what we saw in the trailers was all there really was for the Knights of Ren. ]
[ I'm currently in the midst of a grieving process. I knew someone was going to die and Han was on the short list, but I'm still completely crushed and destroyed right now. Not at all to diminish this movie because it's the second best of the saga to me, but I'm devastated right now. ]
[ Apologies on the brackets. I'm not sure what I did wrong? I put my post in them but it looks like I had to have it edited?
Glen, you're absolutely right about what Disney needed to achieve. But that's why I feel the mass public's reaction is 'OMG THIS IS AWESOME!' and the hard core Star Wars fans are a bit more 'it's great but not great GREAT'. This feels like a Star Wars movie aimed at the mass public who remember the originals and want the exact same ride, not at the hard core fans awaiting a new saga. That said, I really am looking forward to Episode VIII now these characters are established.
As for the Republic? I'm only going off the dialogue in the movie, which was so infuriatingly vague about that it was very hard to follow. They use the phrase 'That was the Republic' to describe what just blew up. They also go on to state that the entire Republic Fleet is gone, and General Hux's speech makes reference to destroying the Senate entirely.
Also, Luke is actually another aspect I was disappointed in. Why? Because having him go in to exile because he failed training somebody completely ruins the end of RotJ, and makes him look like a selfish jerk on top of that. His friends needed him, the galaxy was under threat, and he's off having an epic sulk because one student went bad. It robs Luke of his heroic agency. Even now, he's only returning because he's being dragged. He's no longer a hero in my eyes. Let's not forget that his best friend and the coolest guy ever is now dead, and wouldn't be if Luke had just got off his butt and helped save the galaxy like a good Jedi is supposed to do.
Not to mention, why was there a fragmented magic map leading to him? I mean, if I was to go off in to hiding, I probably wouldn't leave a secret treasure map so everybody looking for me could hunt me down... ]
Scout, it was the italics in the middle that threw it all off. We figured it out and fixed it
[ The first thing I did when I got home was to make a drink with which to send Han Solo off properly. Gave him the old "May you arrive in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you're dead" bit. I needed closure. ]
Oh, I'm sorry! I didn't realise that'd mess it up.
It's ok, I didn't know it would either!
[ Expanded thoughts on the movie (bits and tidbits);
The new X-wing design looks sleek and sharp.
Once again the bad guys managed to construct an amazing weapon of immense size in a short amount of time. At this rate I wouldn't be suprised if this was just the prototype Starkiller Base and that there are several more spread through the galaxy.
So.....which star did they use to power the first shot? Are they able to draw the power from suns even farther away? That star that we saw seemed to be pretty close.
So.....were those planets that were hit all in the same system, or did we see destruction spread across the galaxy that seemed closer to one area from an interstellar point of view?
Reprised thoughts has me thinking that it was a Sector/Regional Republic Capital and Fleet Base that was wiped out, hence getting rid of the local "Republic Support" for the Resistance, but Hux's speech and other factors has me thinking that it was more significant then that, but then if it was then everyone reacted rather subdued when the news was recieved. Perhaps Hux was referencing future uses of the weapon in wiping out the senate and Republic as a whole?
So when the base was destroyed, the collected energy collapsed the planet into a new star?
The new Star Destroyer design seems to harken back to the days of the Venator class, being used as more of a carrier with a few specialized weapons here and there.
TIE Fighters have been upgraded, but did it happen to all of them or just to the ones flown by senior officers?
The quality of the average TIE Fighter pilot has declined, but the quality of the average stormtrooper has increased, as explained by the new program of raising them from birth rather then going through conscription as with the old Empire.
Would Phasma really lower the shields around the entire freaking base just to save her own butt? Also, what ultimatly happened to her? Disappointed with how little screen time she had.
Disappointed with how little screen time the Knights of Ren had. Wondering if that Force vision was of the past with them or of the future? Right now I'm leaning towards past, back to when Kylo (Ben) first fell to the darkside and they destroyed the New Jedi Order and possibly killed Luke's wife as well, if Ray is indeed his daughter (which would be an added incentive for Luke to wander away from it all).
Wasn't too impressed with the plot overall. I think they tried to cram too much into one movie. The destruction of Starkiller Base should've waited for another movie while they primarily focused on finding Luke in this one.
More to come later. ]
[ If you hadn't noticed, Scout, most of us in this community ARE hardcore Star Wars fans, and most of us really enjoyed the movie, so I don't think that has anything to do with it.
As far as the plot and the exposition being bad... have you ever actually seen a Star Wars movie? They all have massive plot holes. They're all incredibly vague. We don't have a detailed explanation of what the Resistance is about... but we never really had a detailed explanation of what the Rebel Alliance is about either. It feels like we know more, because we have nearly 40 years of additional evidence... but frankly, we know that a) the Empire is bad (and likes blowing up planets), b) they killed most of the Jedi, and c) Princess Leia is a leader (ish) in some sort of Rebellion/Resistance against the bad guys. Aside from the Empire dissolving the Senate - which happens during the movie, so it isn't a cause for the Rebellion - we don't really know anything about what caused the Rebels to take up arms. The Force Awakens provides the exact same level of detail / vagueness that A New Hope did - you just know a lot more about the Empire in hindsight because of other movies, EU books, roleplaying, etc.
With Starkiller Base... things were definitely vague, but employing a little bit of occam's razor (the simplest option is usually the truth), my guess is that all of those planets were in the same system as the Resistance base. They don't actually say in the movie, it sorta makes logical sense that Starkiller Base is mobile - it HAS to be able to move to another system in order to consume another star, else you'll run out of ammo really really quick. Plus, at least one of those planets/moons appeared to be in orbit of one of the other ones, and I don't think JJ would try the whole "the exploding planet isn't literally there, I'm just showing it in the sky as an artistic representation thing" after it fell a little flat with Delta Vega in his first Star Trek movie. Also, there was a new official map thing released in a magazine recently that shows "Starkiller Base Original Location", so yeah - those planets being in the same system / Starkiller Base being in-system to destroy them seems like the easiest / most logical assumption. ]
[ I know most of us here are, but I'm talking about my experience outside of this group. With people I'm friends with IRL, most of the hard core fans I know have responded like I did. 'It's good, but not the greatest thing ever'. Which I would like to remind you here. I ALSO really enjoyed the movie. I just don't think it's the greatest thing ever, and think it's significantly worse than the original trilogy.
Now, to answer your question, and brace yourself for a shock here... yes, I have seen a Star Wars movie. In fact, I've seen all the Star Wars movies. A lot. Who would have thought?
Questions this film ignored. And without a firm grip on what was going on, I felt a bit lost.
I assume that Starkiller Base moved around, but really, they really should have shown that. I honestly stand by that this movie would have been stronger without the Starkiller Base stuff. If it had just been focused on the characters, without the 'save the galaxy attack on the killer super weapon' at the end, I think it would have felt a lot fresher and less forced.
Uh, no pun intended.
But I still really enjoyed it. I'm just not in LOVE with it like a lot of you are.
I agree with almost all of Park's comments. ]
[ If the Original Trilogy doesn't have plot holes... then why was Leia's ship at Tatooine, where the last Jedi Knight and Leia's unknown twin conveniently happen to be hanging out? Thanks to Revenge of the Sith, we know it's because Bail Organa knew Kenobi was there, but we had to wait decades for that explanation. When the heroes went to rescue Han from carbonite, their plan was infiltrate the palace and... then what? Most of the plot of the original trilogy relies on fluke / luck / "the will of the Force" - which is absolutely fine, but it's not exactly ironclad plot stuff. The Force Awakens also relied a lot on luck - it was lucky that BB-8 stumbled across Rey, it was lucky that Han stumbled across the Falcon, it was lucky that they happened to wind up on a planet where Luke's old lightsaber was - but just like in the original trilogy, that's 100% fine. That's part of the charm.
As far as not explaining the lightsaber and all of that junk - of course they didn't. This movie doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are going to be sequels. The hype for this movie has been so enormous; if Abrams had explained everything we wanted answers to, there'd be far less anticipation for the next one. They carried over mysteries to the next instalment. That's a perfectly fine thing to do.
It's a shame that you and your "hardcore IRL friends" didn't enjoy it as much as the rest of us did... but I think that has a lot more to do with subjective opinion than objective quality. You just didn't like it as much, and that's fine. ]
[ I hope I don't sound arrogant saying 'hardcore IRL friends' or whatever I said. I don't mean they're bigger fans than anybody here. I just mean I have other friends who are equally big fans. Mostly the costume group I do Star Wars with (we're not 501st... yet >.>). Some loved it as much as you did, some felt like me. Only one hated it, and ironically, he just finished a Kylo Ren costume, so he's a bit annoyed
But while I did still enjoy it, as I keep saying, I do feel there are objective reasons I didn't enjoy it as much as you. Objective reasons that you may be happy ignoring/think are positives, but reasons nevertheless. I didn't just 'not enjoy it as much'. There are reasons for my response.
Things like what you list are the coincidences of Star Wars. Which is no problem. The Tanitive IV being over Tatooine? No problem. Coincidence (or, even back before the prequels, you knew Leia was looking for Obi-Wan, so you could excuse that was where it was headed). An army of Ewoks conveniently finding Threepio their god? Coincidence. Story thrives on this stuff. Rey meeting BB-8? Coincidence, and I have no problem with that. Han getting the Falcon back just in time? Same again. Although I suppose you could argue he'd been waiting for a read out from it.
None of those are plot HOLES. They're plot contrivances. There's a difference. You can say it's flimsy, but it's only a plot hole when it doesn't make sense. They can make sense, just at a stretch.
I wouldn't say that TFA had plot holes either. But it did have the odd plot contrivance that felt even more of a stretch.. Things like the map to Luke, which is just a really bizarre macguffin that exists with no explanation to me seems very odd. Or Finn, the man who literally cleaned the toilets, knowing the way in to the shield generator. Or Captain Phasma, the big leader of the troopers, backing down and doing exactly as asked when her life is threatened. (At least she follows the great tradition of awesome looking armoured characters who turn out to be wusses in the film
Dear Mr Atkins,Originally Posted by Captain Untouchable
Please have no concerns about the recreational activities during your stay in Bavaria. Of course, various entertainment events have already been planned and we can assure you that a visit to a movie theater nearby with the screening of the already iconic film about the resistance to the “First Order” a long time ago is an integral part of your program.
We are looking forward to seeing you soon and remain
with kindest regards
Peter and Martina Sturm
Your travel designers
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