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Thread: Gotham Reborn?

  1. #1
    TheHolo.Net Poster

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    DC Gotham Reborn?

    Hey, everybody. I know that the Skyrim RP has really taken off, recently, but I'd like to look back a bit at something from last year: the DC RP setting.

    I know much of it was run by Jace, and that without him it rather collapsed, but I would like to imagine that if some of us are still interested, it could be resurrected. I would love to return to that setting, with Gotham's "heroes" getting off the ground, and having all sorts of fun in that sort of dark hero enviromnent. I also have a friend who is a massive DC fan, and would be super-interested in joining us for RP. He's never been here before, but I can guarantee he'd be a very welcome asset to our sadly dwindling pool of RP'ers.

    For those characters played by people who no longer want to be part of DC, or have just basically vanished, I propose that we be able to take over those roles if given permission, or make a new account for that role if the player is just plain gone, and not going to come back. Yes, that's a little harsh, but in order to really keep things going, there are characters we just plain need to have around.

    Any thoughts on this? I wouldn't be able to really get into things until after the 4'th of July weekend, so we do have some time to discuss and see if this is an environment we'd like to return to. I know I still love DC comics, and I want this RP setting to come back.

  2. #2
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    Lilaena De'Ville's Avatar
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    I would join in.



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  3. #3
    TheHolo.Net Poster

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    Anyone else interested?

    And, because of the loss of Jace as an active RP'er, and some of the conflict and drama that happened before, would it be best to simply restart things, or should we try and find a way to pick up where we left off?

    I'd be down for bringing back Guy Gardner, who masquerades as both the hero Warrior, and the villain Black Hand. I'll also be bringing back Alan Scott, who in this continuity would have been the Green Lantern back in the cold war era, and actually going back as far as possibly the Korean War. He has long ago retired from being a GL, and his alter-ego was never found out. He runs Gotham Brodcasting Stations, or GBS, and is a billionaire, but is certainly feeling his age, these days.

    I am also considering bringing in Deadshot, a hitman for hire, who will work both sides.

    Obviously we'll still need:
    Batman
    Robin(s) & Nightwing
    Batgirl?
    Green Arrow
    Speedy?
    Black Canary
    Huntress

    As well as a police commissioner, and all the other assorted roles. If we are restarting, I think it might be fair to allow people to make a bid for a character they'd like to play this time, who was done by someone either no longer interested in playing, or was never actively played by the previous player. Does this make sense?

    As far as villain roles go, I've got a friend who absolutley loves the Suicide Squad, and we could likely cound on him to bring the villainy, which is something we really lacked, before. Every good hero needs a good villain, after all, and he likes the idea of no "big gun" powers in the mix off the bat.

    So, thoughts?

  4. #4
    TheHolo.Net Admin
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    I've got Barbara Gordon (going for Barbara/Oracle not Batgirl) and the Mad Hatter in my repertoire.

  5. #5
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    I have no idea who, what, where, or how this roleplay was going before. I never peeked in on it before, but I do have some experience writing DC characters (Mostly Villains) but on the whole I'm not all that knowledgeable about the DC Universe. But seeing as this roleplay appears to be taking place primarily in Gotham I think I'll be okay.

    The characters I have experience with are the likes of Deathstroke the Terminator, Victor Zsasz, and Azrael.

  6. #6
    Minnie Starshine
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    Is this still going? Would you guys allow powered characters? I'm a big Supergirl fan and have always wanted to write her but never found anywhere I'm allowed >.>

  7. #7
    I think we'd need to start from scratch on this - we had an account purge recently and a lot of the old DC accounts have gone now.

    I'll happily/eagerly write Green Arrow again, though, and I have a ton of ideas for elseworlds / EU type stories. Would be happy to put our heads together and come up with something! (Presumably something where Supergirl wasn't raised on Earth? )

    Edit:

    And Booster Gold.
    Last edited by Captain Untouchable; Oct 10th, 2015 at 11:08:25 AM.
    It's like that, and that's the way it is.

     

  8. #8
    TheHolo.Net Admin
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    Well if people were here and wanted to save their accounts then they should have done so. Always expect the unexpected! this is obviously a joke and please don't take offense

    But of course the good news is that even accounts that were from before probably only had a few posts. Re-registering won't be hard, and starting over even less hard because it's a barely used scenario.
    Last edited by Lilaena De'Ville; Oct 10th, 2015 at 11:56:15 AM.

  9. #9
    Minnie Starshine
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    I'm new, don't blame me .

    I have loads of ideas for writing Supergirl actually (and keeping her relatively balanced in the grand scheme of things). Just never found anywhere I can use them >.>

  10. #10
    I have an idea for Superman that has been knocking around in my head for years that I figured I'd float out there and see what people think.

    The short version is that someone dies, and Superman feels responsible. Maybe it's a low-powered hero, or a powerless hero, or an innocent bystander - someone who (to Superman's mind) died because they weren't taking things seriously enough, that they were being unnecessarily reckless with peoples lives, etc. As a result he becomes overprotective, starts favouring the "more powerful" heroes and/or the ones with skills/training (people like Captain Atom, Green Lantern, Power Girl, etc), and as a result some of the other heroes start getting left with the crappier jobs (petty crime, D-List villains, crowd control, natural disasters) while Superman and his "Justice League Elite" (or whatever we call it) handle all of the world-threatening problems.

    I think this is a potentially handy way to explain away some of the more powerful A-List characters aren't being written about (they have more important things to do), but in such a way that it doesn't write them out of the story entirely. Superman can still be part of Supergirl's life, he's just not going to swoop in and save the day like a deus ex machina every thread. Batman can still be part of the story, but perhaps he's up on the Watchtower coordinating things 24/7 and is relying on some of the "lesser" heroes to keep Gotham/etc safe... hell, maybe he's even helping them out on the sly, feeding them intel from the Watchtower but remaining there himself to "keep an eye" on Superman lest his overprotectiveness get too carried away.

    I'd certainly be interested in writing that kind of paranoid/guilty perspective on Superman: it's a version of him I've always enjoyed in cartoons and comics and such.

  11. #11
    Minnie Starshine
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    Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about that one. While I obviously agree there has to be a good reason for characters we don't have writers for not to show up and save the day, in a way, that's just comic books. Superman doesn't save the day in 95% of comic books because his name isn't on the cover. We don't need a full excuse.

    BUT the idea has some merit for a story to be told. I really dislike it when they make Superman a jerk who suddenly starts bossing people around or assuming more control because of his powers. To me, Superman is like Captain America in personality; he should be the perfect, 'good' guy. Superman has never been about his powers to me, but his morals. But maybe that's because my Mum loved him so much and I watched loads of his shows and stuff with her as a little girl, and it left this really firm impression on me of what being 'good' meant.

    So I don't like the idea of him just dismissing people because they don't have powers. Like with Batman. I always liked it when he seemed to look up/admire Batman for his lack of powers and what he did. That sort of basic 'goodness'.

    But that said, it's an interesting story that could bring about some interesting conflict. After all, if you live in a world where some people are super powerful, and some aren't, shouldn't you have some responsibility to protect those without powers? It could work, as long as Superman isn't a big dick about it >.>. But it begs more questions; if the problem is we don't want him swooping in saving the day, but he's formed an elite group explicitly to do that when things get too dangerous, it doesn't really excuse him. With that logic, if things get dire, he's MORE expected to show up and go 'this is too dangerous, I'll take it from here' than not to.

  12. #12
    Long waffly response incoming!

    I'm not thinking of it in terms of Superman bossing people around, per se. He is definitely the figurehead of the Justice League, but in the majority of depictions he relies on someone like Batman, Martian Manhunter, or Red Tornado to sit up on the Watchtower and do the actual coordinating of who goes to do what. So it's not that he's explicitly said that "Green Arrow isn't allowed to fight supervillains anymore"... it's just that Green Arrow begins to notice he's spending most of his time getting sent to help with earthquakes, fires, prison break-outs, and that sort of thing. I think that actually firewalls Superman from being the kind of jerk you're describing: Superman has the positive/optimistic/hopeful "I just want to keep everyone safe" mentality, but he relies on a realist like Batman or an android like Red Tornado to make the actual calls on who does what.

    As far as Superman being a boy scout like Captain America: I don't disagree, but bear in mind that quite often, Superman being a boy scout manifests itself as stopping purse snatchers and rescuing kittens from trees. To keep with the Marvel parallel for a minute, what I'm thinking is more along the lines of Captain America seeing himself as the leader of the Avengers, with international responsibilities and that sort of thing, and he is content to leave people like Spider-Man and Daredevil to deal with problems on the streets because he has "more important things to worry about". It's not that he's a jerk, that he doesn't care, or that he's bossing people around: he trusts the "less powerful" heroes to fight crime and so forth without his interference or meddling... he just feels responsible for everyone's safety, and knowing when to hold someone back for their own wellbeing (and being pragmatic about their skills/capabilities) is sort of a hallmark of leadership.

    That said, (spoiler tagged because it's not strictly what I'm getting at) I've always seen Superman as the personification of America, in terms of their reputation on the world's stage. Back in the 40s, they were the heroes that swooped in and helped everyone to fight the Nazis. In the 70s, they were the beacon of democracy that was all bright, and colourful, and protecting the world from Communism and all that bad stuff. Nowadays though, America's reputation is tarnished a little bit. They still feel that they are doing "the right thing", but sometimes their methods are questionable, sometimes they step in where people don't think they should step in, sometimes they do what they believe is right over the objections of others. I actually like that Man of Steel Superman is a little less clean and pristine: that's how American / Western culture is nowadays. You know (or at least hope) that deep down they are doing the right thing... but they exist in a world where clean and star-spangled solutions don't exist any more. That's sort of the headspace I'm coming from in terms of approaching Supes.

    In terms of who might die, if we went down this route -

    • Batman is one option. Him being dead never really seems to stick anyway, but Bruce Wayne is pretty much the poster child for taking stupid risks in spite of the fact that he is a "mere mortal". If that stubbornness to be seen as equal to / superior to the other Leaguers got him killed, it'd be a good motivation for Superman to want to discourage that attitude in others. Also, Batman being dead probably has one of the most significant emotional impacts on the Justice League, because despite his lack of powers no one will believe it's possible. And, it throws open some interesting options for the Batgirls and Robins, and for criminals being opportunistic buttholes in Gotham City.
    • Barry Allen is another option. Specifically an older Barry Allen (as opposed to Grant Gustin). He is the benevolent vigilante: he does no harm, all he does is help. Someone that "good" dying is arguably more of a blow than Batman, because with Batman you at least know he understood the risks, whereas Barry is often portrayed as a bit more wide-eyed and naive than that. Having an older Barry means there's the option for someone to come along and write a Grant Gustin version of the Flash, as Wally West or Bart Allen, or some other young successor picking up the mantle - which nicely skirts the whole "I want to write young Barry, but that doesn't fit with the rest of the League" thing. Also, there are a lot of speedsters in DC (many of them getting introduced in Season 2 of The Flash), so just like with Batman there's scope for a lot of people trying to live up to his legacy.
    • Aquaman or Martian Manhunter are both original/important members of the Justice League, and they both have weaknesses that make them the butt of jokes a little bit. Aquaman is often a laughing stock, but his sacrifice puts a stop to all that; and his status as royalty means that him dying is potentially a political tragedy as well as a personal one. J'onn J'onzz meanwhile is pretty much liked by everyone in the League, and the fact that he is (more or less) the last survivor of his race would not only make his death tragic, it also strikes a pretty personal chord with Superman as well. Having either of them die in a fire (their shared weakness) is a pretty solid reminder that some people just aren't cut out for certain missions.
    • Ted Kord (Blue Beetle) is the poster child for "not taking it too seriously" when it comes to being a vigilante. He's a tech vigilante like Batman, but he has fun with it, he's lovable... and he's also usually dead in most continuities anyway because the bad guys killed him, so nobody is dead that people might expect to not be dead. He's the nice guy that didn't deserve to die... and while it wasn't necessarily his enjoying being a superhero that got him killed, it wouldn't be hard for people like Batman or Superman to (mis)interpret it that way, and blame themselves for not encouraging him harder to take things seriously.


    Or, y'know... we have some weird thing where no one is comfortable mentioning who died by name, and just refers to "they" all the time or whatever, which would be awkward but... less prohibitive.

  13. #13
    Minnie Starshine
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    I don't think we should kill off any canon character in case people want to come on board and play them. Especially ones in upcoming films/TV shows as that's the type of characters people want to write. I mean, how'd you like it if somebody else decided to kill off Arrow? .

    See, my opinion of Superman is that he's the type of guy who would never use the phrase 'more important things to do'. He's the guy who thinks saving a kitten from a tree is just as important as stopping Darkseid from destroying the world. The guy who thinks stopping to comfort a suicide jumper is just as important as foiling Lex Luthor. All of that. But I'm not American, so I never tied Superman to American values (despite the famous saying). To me, he always represented just being 'good'.

    I don't mind the idea that he leaves street things to street heroes, Marvel style (most of the time, anyway) but I'm still not keen on this whole 'gives other heroes 'lesser' jobs' thing. The Superman I grew up watching would never think helping people during an Earthquake was 'less important' than anything else.

    I honestly think it'd just be better to write comic book style. The other heroes are out there, but if they don't turn up, it's because they're off doing their own thing. I'd probably even suggest downplaying the Justice League angle, so most characters are independent and just cross paths while adventuring. We could stick Superman 'off world' for a bit like he's off having some intergalactic adventure, but I think we should just not really mention him and leave it up to somebody to pick him up what he's doing.

    Plus with a 'Justice League Elite', there's no reason they wouldn't stick Supergirl in it. Sure, she's inexperienced, and not as powerful as Superman, but she's still Kryptonian.

  14. #14
    I think you're maybe reading a bit too much in "lesser". I just... can't think of a better word.

    The way I see it, it's not a case of Superman thinking that his time is precious. It's not a case of him thinking that things are "beneath him". It's just that he cares so much for the people around him, the people who look up to him as a figurehead, and feels so responsible for having inspired them to take part in this life that he just can't bare the thought of someone else dying because he inspired them to take a risk that they weren't suited for. Everything about that sentiment is noble, and boy scout, and everything you've described Supes as being. The fact that he doesn't participate in street level stuff is because he knows that the other heroes have got it covered. More than that, he knows that some people are a bit bent out of shape (comic book Oliver Queen in particular would hate this), and so he's keeping a "respectful distance" from that stuff. If he is asked for, if someone shouts out his name or activates a signal watch, he will be there faster than a speeding bullet to help out his friends... but he's also conscious that by trying to do everything himself when he is asking people to not do the same thing is a precarious issue.

    As far as Kara in the Justice League Elite: don't forget that she's his cousin, and she's still a teenager. She may be bulletproof, but she doesn't know how to fight without throwing cars and accidentally heat visioning through sections of building. She doesn't know strategy. She may not be prepared to deal with someone who has brought kryptonite with them, or to go up against a magic user (which Kryptonians are vulnerable to). It may well be that Superman wants her to be in the Elite, but he wants her to be there on his terms, which means holding her back until she's "ready", asking her to look out for the civilians instead of fighting the main fight - exactly the kind of stuff that a slightly bratty teenage Supergirl would hate. Her going off solo to interact with the other heroes is potentially an act of teenage defiance... her interactions with Green Arrow then become her working with someone who "understands" why Superman's attitude rubs her up the wrong way.

    And yeah... we could just do it like the comics, but the comics have dozens of ongoing series telling the story from different angles. A better analogy for us is how the TVs or movies do it... and how many times have you heard someone wonder why Tony Stark didn't get the Avengers to help fight the Mandarin, or why Captain America didn't get the Hulk to come help take down SHIELD... or point out how weird it is that Starling City has had three major disasters/wars and yet no one (no other heroes, no government agencies, no nothing) has offered any kind of support or aid (aside from ARGUS trying to drone strike the city), and how that's going to "break the story" if there's a crossover with Supergirl and we find out that Superman has been part of that storyline all along.

    The comics / TV way of doing things isn't necessarily the best way, and personally I'd prefer to have some sort of excuse/explanation in play aside from "they were doing something else" - especially if we're going to end up in Gotham (or wherever) where a different specific vigilante is dominant.

  15. #15
    TheHolo.Net Admin
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    I didn't read all those words because my break at work is almost over, but killing off or purposefully limiting canon characters that no one is playing should be something we avoid. If no ones playing them, great, just don't mention that character and leave it open for whoever might want to play them in the future.

    We can have a Super Girl without a Superman, that's fine.

  16. #16
    TheHolo.Net Poster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zereth Lancer View Post
    I have no idea who, what, where, or how this roleplay was going before. I never peeked in on it before, but I do have some experience writing DC characters (Mostly Villains) but on the whole I'm not all that knowledgeable about the DC Universe. But seeing as this roleplay appears to be taking place primarily in Gotham I think I'll be okay.

    The characters I have experience with are the likes of Deathstroke the Terminator, Victor Zsasz, and Azrael.
    This is still my response to reigniting this roleplay setting. Also I didn't read all of the discussion above because I'm at work, but I plan to and hopefully weigh in after work. I have a lot of experience writing supers: although namely in the Marvel universe.

  17. #17
    Sleazy
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    *shrug*

    We started doing stuff where Batman was dead before, because that was the story that people wanted to tell. We started doing stuff where we made a conscientious effort not to include Superman the first time around. We have a Star Wars setting where everyone is dead, and we have a Marvel setting where no one canon ever existed (and where for a while we limited stuff to only mutants instead of the full scope of Marvel). I'm not saying that we should kill people of willy-nilly, but I don't think we should necessarily rule it out just on principle, either. Sometimes settings need a big event like that to crystalise what they're about, and sometimes those limitations make things interesting... so lets get a sense of the kind of setting that people want to write in, and then work backwards from there. No point tying our hands at this early stage by ruling out potential plot devices.

    Besides, since when has dying ever stopped a superhero from appearing in a story?

    You guys don't seem to like the Superman idea, which is fine. What do you guys want to do, then?

  18. #18
    TheHolo.Net Admin
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    Actually Batman/Bruce Wayne wasn't dead, he was being played by Peter.

  19. #19
    Actually... in one iteration yeah, Peter played Batman. That was when Oliver Queen was the original Robin (as in Robin Hood), and that was the justification for Green Arrow being in Gotham. When we tried to reboot things after that stuff had fizzled out, we were going to go with a Batman who had just died, so that Jenny could write Dick Greyson starting to come into his own; that version had a more comic book style Green Arrow who was coming in to "fill the void" in Gotham until someone else could take over. I'm pretty sure there was an even older attempt to do stuff too (hence my Green Arrow account being from all the way back in 2010).

    There's more than one version of what was planned in the past.
    Last edited by Captain Untouchable; Oct 12th, 2015 at 12:17:51 AM.

  20. #20
    Minnie Starshine
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    I'm not totally opposed to the Superman idea, I just have reservations, as I explained. But you have countered most of them. And I do like the idea of there being tension about why Kara isn't allowed in. (She's powerful enough, but not skilled/disciplined enough, could lead to fun stories).

    I mean, my preference would be to just start writing the characters we want to write how we want to write them (so taking elements from whereever; fan of the TV shows? You can take inspiration from there. Prefer the comics? Use them. Movies? Great! etc.). And then just let us sort of 'create' the universe by writing how we like to write those characters and watch how they respond to each other. Then, after we've done a few threads, THEN sort out the wider backstory as to where the heroes we DON'T get picked up are.

    Because somebody might pick up Batman or Superman. We don't know yet.

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