How do we get new/different staff members?

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Ok, home now.


On the matter of outlining what admins and mods are expected to do, I agree. To my recollection, there was never any set list of tasks made; new mods were just given basic crash courses and the older mods provided help and minor guidance. The hierarchy of powers as I understand them are pretty much only two-tiered. Admins, who are able to delve to the bottom of the site and alter its' layout/code/etc, and mods, who are able to do surface tasks such as thread moving/stickying/etc. To be quite honest, the difference between a group mod and a main mod is nonexistant. Where the group mods cannot edit things in the main rp-ing forums, the rp mods cannot modify anything in the group mod forums. So frankly, the two are the same thing just with different territories and different names. I do recall there being a super mod category, which has/had the same level of abilities that the old main mods used to have before we upgraded from (I think) the first version of vB.

Now, I may be seeing the power structure incorrectly, but that is how I've always perceived it.

Obviously settling disputes between posters, sniping spammers, deleting double posts, but also running things like RPer of the Month, football pick threads (or at least stickying them), being more proactive in generating content and being active...

Settling disputes (to the best of the staff's abilities) is something that is done, but these disputes are few and far between. Frankly, it's one of those duties that follows the old saying 'no news is good news'.

Sniping spammers is done as well, and the staff is always grateful for the heads-up since none of us are omniscient. Sometimes it is a multi-stage thing though, as a mod may be available to delete the post right off the bat, but an admin is needed for the banning when they jump online.

Deleting double posts is something I am well acquainted with, and while I tend to catch a fair share, I know that there are others that slip through the cracks of threads I've not yet had a chance to open up. That's when reported posts are most appreciated.

RPer of the month I feel should be a shared thing; if someone from the staff or a member starts the thread, then kudos. It's not a responsibility that I feel should solely rest on the shoulders of the staff.

Football pick threads I feel the same way about.

As for being proactive about generating content, I do believe that this should be a given. However there is a catch. I will use myself as an example, here. I made this thread and this thread; the first for encouraging people to post up the music that inspires their writing (with the added benefit of possibly introducing someone to a band/group previously unheard of), and the second to provide a bit of fun in stimulating member-driven RP related art. The latter thread, especially, was posted to. But only by two others. I'm not saying 'rawr post to these threads you jerks' in any way, but what I want to illustrate in a small fashion is that the staff can be proactive about posting content. We can share the cool things that we stumble upon. But if the members themselves don't participate, then there's nothing we can do for that content-related thread. We're not going to pull the old 'if you have time to be online you have time to post' bullcrap, because that's not us, and that's not this site. It never has been.



Defining the parameters of what it means to be an admin and a mod is fine. I'm all for doing that, and will help any way that I can.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Also, can we come to a consensus on removing inactive staff members?

I still propose my method I mentioned on the previous page. To elaborate a little bit:

1. Contact the inactive staff members
2. Note that we've noticed they've been largely absent in recent times, and ask that things are going ok.
3. Inform them that the board is undergoing few changes, which includes a look at revamping the staff (member-wise and responsibility-wise).
4. Ask if they see themselves being a part of this new revamp, or if they may wish to instead bow out and retire** gracefully.

(** - my preferred word over, say, 'demote', which to me carries negative connotations - some people have been on staff for years and deserve a bit of respect afterall )

I think this is a good idea, so I guess if we're voting I vote this.

Admins can do more on the back end of the site (style sets, monitor rep comments, ban people as some examples), as well as alter user information, reset passwords, add topic icons, smileys, that sort of thing. The Staff mods have the same powers as the group mods, just over the RP forums (and all the group forums as well). We did used to have "Super Moderators" which were the staff moderators but they could do additional things like alter user info (CTs, search the user database easily, I forget what else.) We lost those many years ago, unfortunately, making the staff moderators have to wait for an admin to be online to take care of more issues than they used to.

As far as role, I see an admin like a manager and the mods are assistant managers?

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

The Staff mods have the same powers as the group mods, just over the RP forums (and all the group forums as well).

From my experience, this is not true. I was never able to step in and edit things in the group forums; the empire forum being the exception since I was a mod there as well. But if something needed deleting in the Jedi or Alliance forums or the other groups? Nope. Can't help you. You're going to need a mod for that specific forum. Main board moderators lost ALOT of their previous abilities when we moved on from the first version of vB.

[TheHolo.Net]

The Staff mods have the same powers as the group mods, just over the RP forums (and all the group forums as well).

From my experience, this is not true. I was never able to step in and edit things in the group forums; the empire forum being the exception since I was a mod there as well. But if something needed deleting in the Jedi or Alliance forums or the other groups? Nope. Can't help you. You're going to need a mod for that specific forum. Main board moderators lost ALOT of their previous abilities when we moved on from the first version of vB.

This is something I was not aware of. It will need to be re-visited and fixed. Staff Mods should be able to moderate site wide.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Ah. I am glad to be corrected, then.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

If you go to the bottom of a group forum it says who moderates it and our board mods in bold are listed on each of them. If you've tried to edit something in one and it didn't work I don't know why that would be. If you're just assuming you can't, then maybe try stickying a thread in the Circle forum and see if it works.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

It is nothing to do with assumption. I knew that it didn't work because I have tried in the past when people asked me to delete double posts, and I was unable. Like I said, I am going by my experience.

[TheHolo.Net]

It is nothing to do with assumption. I knew that it didn't work because I have tried in the past when people asked me to delete double posts, and I was unable. Like I said, I am going by my experience.

Should work now. See the test post I made (with a regular account) in the Enclave for a chance to try it

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Deleted the post. Much thanks.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

It is nothing to do with assumption. I knew that it didn't work because I have tried in the past when people asked me to delete double posts, and I was unable. Like I said, I am going by my experience.

Then I am the one who has assumed, as you guys are listed on each of the forums.

A little communication between staff members goes a long way, I think, unfortunately, this just illustrates that either the board staff doesn't talk to each other or feels like they can't? Something like that could have been solved ages ago. No offense meant to the parties involved, but it is a bit ridiculous.

[TheHolo.Net]

It is nothing to do with assumption. I knew that it didn't work because I have tried in the past when people asked me to delete double posts, and I was unable. Like I said, I am going by my experience.

Then I am the one who has assumed, as you guys are listed on each of the forums.

A little communication between staff members goes a long way, I think, unfortunately, this just illustrates that either the board staff doesn't talk to each other or feels like they can't? Something like that could have been solved ages ago. No offense meant to the parties involved, but it is a bit ridiculous.

Of which you are guilty of as well. Now that you have quit helping with styles and any other admin stuff since the software update, and had Dasq remove your access (however that went down), you failed to mention it to me that you no longer needed your sFTP access. And now you come down on the staff with all of this busy work and 'seemingly innocent' ideas. Something doesn't seem quite right here.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Sorry, I didn't remember about the sFTP access.

i will stop posting, my input is obviously not wanted, and is fishy for some reason? What does that even mean??

[TheHolo.Net]

When you insult the staff I get defensive.

I did not take what you said at the beginning of this topic very well. Saying 'What if he just doesn't show up again?"

I have been an admin here longer than you have been a member. I paid for the hosting, and the DNS when donations were not enough to cover it, and even before we took donations. I put fucking tons of time and effort into this place and into almost every aspect of it. I am not a former staffer who quit (twice) who now all of the sudden has all of these grievances, complaints, and ideas. I have always been here, through thick and thin, through active and inactive. Do not try and take the high ground here, you really can't. I would very much appreciate it if you would show some humility and be less condescending to your peers in the staff of this community.

Be less condesending and you will be heard.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

1. It is not my intention to insult anyone on the staff
2. I am not typing this in a condescending tone but if you choose to read it that way, I am sorry.
3. Your absence from the board has been noted by more than just me, as well as the worry in the back of the mind of "what do we do if Ogre leaves??" Because as you pointed out, you are the backbone and foundation of this forum. It does not exist without you.
4. I stepped down ONCE from the staff because with two small children at home I felt I couldn't devote the time to the position that it needed. If you're referring to my recent temporary powers to help with style sets, I was not "on the staff" and I didn't "quit" I was just no longer working on style sets so I didn't need the abilities. :

[Captain Untouchable]

Okay, if I'm understanding this correctly - Chris and Chris focus on the technical side (and are both busy), which leaves Jenny (who is also busy) to look after password issues, custom titles, image claims, and all of that user profile setting changes type editing stuff? I know Morg responds to things when he can, but it sounds like there's a lot (too much) that Jenny is the only one with the access permissions to deal with.

Maybe it'd be worth giving one or two of the existing moderators a little more access so they can help share the load? It's sounding more and more like the problem is access, not activity: we've got people here willing to do stuff, they just don't have the ability to. Having someone like Christin as a Super Moderator or an extra Admin means we've got better time zone coverage, we've got a back-up in case Jenny is snowed under / away / unavailable, and it'd make lives easier all round?

Perhaps this isn't a question of whether or not we need new people, but rather whether or not we can make better use of the people we already have.

[TheHolo.Net]

Okay, if I'm understanding this correctly - Chris and Chris focus on the technical side (and are both busy), which leaves Jenny (who is also busy) to look after password issues, custom titles, image claims, and all of that user profile setting changes type editing stuff? I know Morg responds to things when he can, but it sounds like there's a lot (too much) that Jenny is the only one with the access permissions to deal with.

Maybe it'd be worth giving one or two of the existing moderators a little more access so they can help share the load? It's sounding more and more like the problem is access, not activity: we've got people here willing to do stuff, they just don't have the ability to. Having someone like Christin as a Super Moderator or an extra Admin means we've got better time zone coverage, we've got a back-up in case Jenny is snowed under / away / unavailable, and it'd make lives easier all round?

Perhaps this isn't a question of whether or not we need new people, but rather whether or not we can make better use of the people we already have.

Good points. I believe staff that creates new content (that may or may not attract new members and renewed activity) is another aspect in this staff member request. Blending the 'lets be relevant..' topic with this one in my eyes.

[TheHolo.Net]

1. It is not my intention to insult anyone on the staff
2. I am not typing this in a condescending tone but if you choose to read it that way, I am sorry.
3. Your absence from the board has been noted by more than just me, as well as the worry in the back of the mind of "what do we do if Ogre leaves??" Because as you pointed out, you are the backbone and foundation of this forum. It does not exist without you.
4. I stepped down ONCE from the staff because with two small children at home I felt I couldn't devote the time to the position that it needed. If you're referring to my recent temporary powers to help with style sets, I was not "on the staff" and I didn't "quit" I was just no longer working on style sets so I didn't need the abilities. :

1. I feel you did
2. Apology accepted even if my poor personal communication skills cant convince you that you came across as condescending/insulting to the staff
3. What occurs in chats, PMs, and off these boards 'did not happen' in my eyes. I am not aware of what I am not told or cannot see here. If I were gone, the board would not exist. At the very least the URLs would be lost for years
4. You had access to the super secret mods and admins forum, and certain aspects of the adminCP, that's a staffer if you ask me.

[Dasquian Belargic]

It would be useful to me, as an admin, to understand where people feel like I am not performing expected duties.

What kind of things do you want me to be doing, in what time scale, with what level of visibility, etc.

[Captain Untouchable]

Disclaimer: this is not me having a go at you. Like I said already, I personally feel like you're expected to do the work of more than one person. That said -

1) The General RP Image Claims thread has claims from as far back as July 2012 that haven't been actioned. The oldest ones are Banner Laverick and Flux who have hundreds of posts each, and most definitely were over the 10 post limit when the claim was made. It's a long list, and there are a lot of claims that aren't valid yet; but it looks (to the uninformed eye) that image claims haven't been dealt with for nearly two years.

2) The Star Wars RP Image Claims thread also has claims from June 2012. Some of these are smaller numbers, so might not have become valid until most recently, but Molly Black certainly had enough posts two years ago to have been updated straight away.

3) The Custom Title Tombola thread has requests from 2012 that haven't been responded to. There are also requests from earlier this year, after Charley necro'd the thread. I realise that you need submissions and inspiration to create CTs for people, but you created the thread, and you are the only person (aside from Chris & Chris) who can apply CTs at this time. If you need to solicit suggestions from the community, that's something that needs to be communicated to us. Unless you tell us, we have no way to know the difference between "I need suggestions" and "I am not doing this": it's equally invisible to us.

Those are the ones that I personally have noticed: others may have other examples. I realise those are pretty mundane, trivial things to point out... but as I've said before, this is literally all we have to base our perceptions on. You guys don't tell us every time the staff settles a dispute behind the scenes. You guys don't tell us every time you reset a password. A lot of work was done with style sheets and such by people with staff permissions when the boards changed over, but the community's exposure was "okay, it's done now" - we have no idea what kind of workload you're under, because it's all unseen.

Personally, my assumption is that you've got too much work and are too busy for the smaller stuff, which is why I've suggested help: a two year backlog suggests that assistance is something you need. However, I think you can forgive people for jumping to the other conclusion as well. Like Ogre said, the stuff that happens in PMs and IMs and such doesn't exist: what happens on the board is all we've got to go on. If we don't see you doing stuff, we have no way of knowing that you're doing stuff.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I don't think anyone is currently 'under performing' the duties that have been expected of them, and I sincerely apologize if anything I've said comes across as that.

had I known I was officially a staff member I would not have had the access removed at all. As I was told it was access just to help fix styles so it felt wrong to hold into that power when I was not a staff member.