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Thread: Star Wars: The Old Republic

  1. #41
    Drin Kizael
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    Hey guys.

    So I got in on weekend testing twice. The game definitely lived up to expectations. I'd say surpassed, but I had high preconceptions going in because it's BioWare. Played a female Imp Agent and discovered that I really didn't want to play an Operative like I thought I would. Going for sniper this time around for my first character. There's a few things that I don't like, but what MMO is perfect? Preorder code is in and I'm all installed and ready to go.

    So I guess Guns of Reckoning is going to be the "SW-Fans guild"? That kind of bums me out because I really hate PVP.

    Anyone making a toon for PVE and happen to know what server you're gonna hang out on?

  2. #42
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    Huh. I hadn't even noticed we were PvP.

  3. #43
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    I did not notice it either.

  4. #44
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    Has that changed since we originally set the guild up?

  5. #45
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    No, it's always been that way. It doesn't mean we're a PVP guild, just that we're on a PVP server.

  6. #46
    Bearing in mind what we know about PVP, I don't really understand what the difference is. I thought there were only a handful of planets that could have members of both factions there at the same time (Alderaan, that eight-player place with the giant robot, etc), and that you can 'duel' with a member of the same faction if you so wish.

    I don't understand what activities are disallowed on a PVE server. And if PVP is geographically contained anyway, surely a PVP server is the more diverse option: those who want to do it can, and those who don't just need to be careful on certain planets.

    I doubt we're going to get Jedi camping at the shuttle ports waiting to ambush any unsuspecting people with a faction flag like we did in SWG.

  7. #47
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    PVP servers generally mean that any time you encounter a member of the opposite faction, you can attack them / they can attack you. In PVE, you either have to turn PVP on manually or enter a PVP battleground/arena.

    You can play PVP on both types of servers, it's just that PVP-specific servers mean you are always fair game if a member of the opposing faction wants to attack you, where as PVE servers allow you to be selective about when you want to PVP.

    I doubt we're going to get Jedi camping at the shuttle ports waiting to ambush any unsuspecting people with a faction flag like we did in SWG.
    Ganking is present on all MMOs so I wouldn't rule it out for SWtOR.

  8. #48
    Drin Kizael
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droo View Post
    No, it's always been that way. It doesn't mean we're a PVP guild, just that we're on a PVP server.
    Unfortunately, that kind of amounts to the same thing. I don't even want to create a character on a PVP server basically for the reason Dasq gave. PvP in MMOs does indeed = shuttle camping and random ganking. The reason I never even considered going for Jedi in the SWG days of yore is because I watched that happen way too often. Where there is a chance for loot, there will be farmers.

    PVE servers limit the threat of being attacked to certain zones and if you have your flag set. On PVP servers, it's open season on any planet where factions might run across each other.

    If you were not aware of that ... you've now been warned.

  9. #49
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    As long as this is not game breaking for me I am cool with it but if it hurts our experience we can always relocate and start from scratch again later.

  10. #50
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    I suppose it depends on what the rewards/penalties for PVP are, outside of non-battleground/arena scenarios. I can't imagine that Bioware would have put a system in place that encourages players to kill each other at every possible chance, so as long as that isn't the case you just have to worry about the inevitable griefers. The population of our server will have a big impact on how fun PVP is.

  11. #51
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    As experienced MMO gamers, we opted for a PVP server because we like that extra element of risk and fun. Jace is right, open world PVP content does seem more controlled than in other MMO's, however, that doesn't rule out chance encounters with members of the opposite faction that can turn into skirmishes that are either enjoyable or frustrating depending on your perspective. For me personally, I find PVE servers a little unnatural in the way you can dictate when and where you're fair game to the opposite faction, it is a roleplaying game after all and you are enemies.

    Also, there is a difference between being a PVP guild on a PVP server and a PVE guild on a PVP server, sure, there are some of us who actively pursue PVP in an out of battlegrounds, however, the guild's focus will be on the games PVE content. A PVP guild centers its attentions on competition in battlegrounds, warzones, arenas, and the like. And not all open world PVP is a lame gankfest either, sure there could be annoying campers from time to time but that kind of behaviour is not limited to PVP-only servers, nor of course is any other kind of unfriendly griefing. Most of my experiences of open world PVP have been exhilerating, unpredictable, and hugely entertaining, a simple one-on-one encounter can turn into enormous battles between groups of twenty or thirty people.

    Ultimately, it boils down to whether or not you enjoy the added risk of a random PVP encounter thrown in amongst your travels, personally I find it adds more to the game - in fact, in a non-sandbox sort of game it's the only real player generated content. But it is a question of personal taste.

  12. #52
    Fair warning - huge block of sur-soapbox text incoming. I've put it in a quote box to make it easier to ignore.

    I think it's perhaps unfair to jump to the "that's what all MMOs are like" conclusion, especially given what we know about how the PvP system - and the game in general - so far.

    The first really important thing worth noting comes in the form of a question: in all the hours you played SWTOR, how many times did you actually see a load screen? I can't remember ever having to wait for something to load, except for when I was travelling from planet to planet. Instead, you had those green and red "forcefields" blocking off particular areas; beyond that, you moved seemlessly from place to place.

    Since one of the most common griefing techniques is to attack people while they're contending with a load screen, they already have countermeasures in place for that. All they need to do is stick a faction-specific forcefield over the entrance to the starport / loading area, and not only do you have a safe place to load: you have a safe place to retreat to as well.

    Further credence to that theory is added by taris and Balmorra. While the Republic and Empire visit those worlds at Level 16 (immediately after their capitol) respectively, the opposite faction visits the planet much later in the game - at around Level 32. That's a kind of level disparity that you can't overcome with dumb luck; even superior numbers would make it tough. That suggests that it is possible to play through those planets without excessive death, even when there are high level enemy players around.

    On top of that, worlds are instanced. Another common griefing technique is to form a posse and attack enemy players with superior numbers. The fact that each planet is instanced means that not only can the game limit the number of players per instance in total, it can also limit the number of faction members, preventing one side from vastly outnumbering the other. The instancing will also make it logistically more difficult to form a mob: ganking would take a lot more coordination, and it suddenly starts becoming harder than the legitimate Warzones, rather than easier.

    Speaking of legitimate Warzones - while you do recieve experience and credits for a PVP kill (note: there is no mention of "loot" in any of the released information on PVP), you also recieve Tokens and Valor. Tokens are like the starter world Tokens you got on Korriban or Hutta: they can be exchanged for special items, in this case PVP orientated ones. Valor meanwhile is a social type score, which allows you to acquire extra titles and such. You can only earn Valor and Tokens while you're in Warzones; so there's even less of an advantage to griefing players outside of those areas.

    That effectively leaves just the one reason for griefing people - because you're an asshole. And yeah, as we all know, MMOs attract a lot of those. However, SWTOR has measures in place to protect you from them as well. In an effort to cut down on the immature squabbling and insult-tossing between factions, the World/Planet channel is faction-exclusive; and there is no way to tell or email an enemy player. (This also stops people "cheating" by emailing equipment from a high level Imperial account to a low level Republic account and visa versa: but that's good for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with PVP)

    The only way to insult someone is to their face; and for every second they spend typing /say commands, that's an extra second you have to snipe them in the face.
    As a general rule, I have first person shooters; but Mass Effect won me over because of how well put-together it's combat system was. Given all of the effort that BioWare has gone to in combatting griefing and negative PVP experiences, I for one plan to give them the benefit of the doubt, and reserve my judgement until I've actually tried PVP for myself.

    I may end up hating it, but I'm certainly not going to dismiss it out of hand without giving it a shot.
    It's like that, and that's the way it is.

     

  13. #53
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    I'm not suggesting that being on a PVP server is going to put me off playing SWTOR, just saying that it's a different gaming experience and, like Droo said, down to a matter of personal preference as to whether or not you like it. Personally, I like to have a little more control over my gaming experience.

    However, SWTOR has measures in place to protect you from them as well. In an effort to cut down on the immature squabbling and insult-tossing between factions, the World/Planet channel is faction-exclusive; and there is no way to tell or email an enemy player. (This also stops people "cheating" by emailing equipment from a high level Imperial account to a low level Republic account and visa versa: but that's good for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with PVP)
    If I'm understanding you right, this is exactly the same as the chat/mail system for WoW.

  14. #54
    Much as I loathe World of Warcraft, doing something the same as WoW doesn't automatically make it a bad idea you know.

  15. #55
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    I know, but you can't really use that as an example of an anti-griefing measure, given the amount of griefing that takes place on WoW.

  16. #56
    It's less the what, and more the why. When they started beta testing, you were able to contact other players. It was only after the inter-faction chat started getting misused that they removed it from the game.

    That suggests to me that they're taking added efforts to combat griefing. As part of a larger scheme it seemed worth mentioning, even if it's an approach that doesn't work on it's own elsewhere.

  17. #57
    Drin Kizael
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    Well if they have that much control on the environment, it might be worth giving it a chance with a backup character, so I can hang out with you guys. If that's okay.

  18. #58
    ^ I recommend either Bounty Hunter or Sith Inquisitor if you do. Both of them had a fairly swift payoff in terms of "cool" (wrist rockets / force lightning) abilities: the Sith Warrior was much more "hit with glowy stick" orientated, which might not be so suitable for a secondary / backup character.

    I'll be playing one of everything: but those (plus Smuggler and Consular) felt much more casual; the others were more hands on and involved.

    I guess there's just something inherently casual about force-throwing a large rock or firing a missile when you get bored of hitting / shooting things.

  19. #59
    I am going to have at least two characters anyway, so I can have one on this server.

  20. #60
    Drin Kizael
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Untouchable View Post
    ^ I recommend either Bounty Hunter or Sith Inquisitor if you do. Both of them had a fairly swift payoff in terms of "cool" (wrist rockets / force lightning) abilities: the Sith Warrior was much more "hit with glowy stick" orientated, which might not be so suitable for a secondary / backup character.
    Probably SI for this. I know that a buddy of mine who will definitely make toon only on the PVE server is jonsin for Force Lightning. So he'll want to run an Inquisitor first and I'll probably roll with him as a SW so we both start on Korriban. Chances are likely I'll have 4 or 5 characters pretty soon out of the gate. Now that I finally have my life back, I figure I'll have the time.

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