Padawans as Mentors?

[Dasquian Belargic]

The idea of someone being "the right sort of mentor" is just nonsense to me. Jedi were assigned to whoever was available to teach them, and in the context of the Wheel that is going to be even more prevalent.

The fact is this: you can do what you want with your characters. You can say that they aren't qualified to teach whatever, because it fits your characters story - but others aren't compelled to do that.

I am not going to say that Daria can't teach healing or combat or whatever because it's not her "speciality." Star Wars isn't like Hogwarts and Jedi aren't just "teachers" - it's a way of life for them, and they are supposed to receive a comprehensive training all aspects of the Force. Aboard the Wheel, Jedi don't have the luxury of that kind of highly-focused, singular study: you need all the skills you can get.

Pairing Kala and Anbira meanwhile puts the relatively pacifist fish-lady in the hands of a big burly brute who wants to smash things.

have you read any of anbira's roleplays?

[Rev Solomon]

Maybe I can offer another perspective.

A knight's primary responsibility toward a Padawan is to train them to the point that they're ready to face the trials for knighthood. That requires certain skills that all Jedi should have, like saber combat, meditation, diplomacy, Force lore. More importantly, it requires field experience, which they can get with any Jedi.

In the Old Republic, each youngling's strengths and affinities would be identified at an early age so they can be matched up with a Master whose abilities complement those strengths and affinities. In our situation, that's not realistic. All the same, someone who wants to be a more peaceful, healing-oriented Jedi could certainly be the Padawan to a more aggressive character like Anbira. They wouldn't cancel each other out - they would complement one another. The Padawan would still get a very well-rounded preparation for knighthood, while Anbira would be forced to look at things from a diplomat's perspective as well as a warrior's perspective.

But Anbira doesn't have healing knowledge - that's pretty specialized. That, I think, is where you bring in another character as a mentor. Anbira would still be the Master, still be the primary point of contact, but someone like Solomon, or even a particularly gifted Padawan, could come alongside a hopeful healer and offer very specific instruction that Anbira couldn't. Same goes for other specialized skills like stealth or advanced lightsaber combat.

I don't think this is something that necessarily has to be formalized, and I don't see anything posted here prohibiting that sort of arrangement. It's as simple as PMing the writer of another Jedi and asking if your character could get some training in. Then go and do it. Simple as that.

[Inyos Aamoran]

have you read any of anbira's roleplays?

Some, though admittedly not many. That's the vibe I picked up from his wandering around sorta scenes... guess my brain was made biased towards it by the badass avatar, and the repeated references to him as a Wookiee...

The idea of someone being "the right sort of mentor" is just nonsense to me. Jedi were assigned to whoever was available to teach them, and in the context of the Wheel that is going to be even more prevalent.

Bollocks did they.

I think you need to reexamine your EU. Mentors specifically chose what Jedi they took on as an apprentice. The reason that Qui Gon took on Obi Wan was because Obi Wan had reached the cut-off age: if he didn't get selected as a Padawan, he would have been shoved into one of the lamo categories, and missed out on his chance to be a Knight. There's an entire novel about it, or so Wookieepedia tells me.

Similarly, Obi Wan became Anakin's mentor through his own choice (though of course, the Council had to sign off on it). He did this, not because he thought Anakin was the right Padawan for him, but because of loyalty to Qui Gon. And, to reference back to a point made earlier: Obi Wan did try to influence Anakin's personality.

The only example that I can think of where a Padawan was assigned to a Jedi would be Snips, getting assigned as Anakin's Padawan during the Clone Wars. That was Obi Wan's idea.

I think it would be fair to say that the Council does assign Padawans, but it's more of a "they have the final say" based on a request by the Knight, rather than them just arbetrarily assigning people on more than a handful of situations.

* * *

Also, it's nice to say that we can do anything we want. But can we? One of the concerns raised is that, under the current, rigid structure, some people are finding it difficult to interact with their respective Masters. If we found a way to broaden the field, then there would be opportunities not only for Padawans to interact with other masters if theirs was unavailable... but it would also broaden the opportunities for the Knights and Masters to do more, too. And that's better for everyone.

We've already had the idea of Vorpaad training from s'Il put forward. Why can't we make this thing the norm? You have your personal master, and if there are any skills they can't specifically teach you, you go to someone else.

That'd alleviate almost 100% of the question of whether a mentor is appropriate, and turns it into a purely character / personality based issue.

Edit:

Pretty much what Rev just said.

[Corell Capstan]

I don't see why you feel the need to make this 'formal' - like I already said, if you want to do something like this, do it. You don't need an official stamp of approval from the rest of the Jedi to say that your character is being mentored by a variety of other Jedi. People have been able to do that from the beginning.

[Droo]

I think this discussion has tumbled so far into the murky waters of irrelevancy it has actually become moot. In the end it boils down to roleplayer choice. If a roleplayer wants a certain type of master they are at liberty to ask the appropriate roleplayer, said roleplayer then has the choice of taking them on as an apprentice. Alternatively, a roleplayer might just want any master, and that then is in the hands of the other roleplayer to step forward and take them on. None of this has to be monitored or regulated by the group at large.

And if, however, the master is unable to teach something specific to the padawan then the character, and roleplayer, can seek another Jedi to help in that area of training. And all this is really nothing new, it's just pure roleplaying common sense. I'm honestly wondering what were even discussing here anymore.

[Inyos Aamoran]

You don't need an official stamp of approval from the rest of the Jedi

That's easy for someone who has been around for ages to say, since you've already earned your way to Knight and beyond. For someone new coming in, though, the Jedi seem scary and strict.

We're the only faction where you have to start at the bottom. We're the only faction that worries about transferring rank from other communities. When we discussed the Jedi Shadows / Investigators, you were all pretty insistant that it should be a "Knights only" affair... which is all well and good for those of you who already have Knights, but for people coming in, it makes it seem line an intimidatingly long road to get from joining to the decent "content".

Quite a few people I've chatted with have this concern about joining the Jedi. I'm not saying we need to change the way we do things, but it would be nice if we were a little more public about it, and a little more open and friendly to people who aren't part of the super-special Jedi in-crowd.

Like I say, an FAQ explaining things like "How can I get to the Wheel?", "What can I do as a Padawan?", and "How does a Padawan become a Knight?" would make it a bit more open about what becoming a Jedi entails. Rather than just assuming everyone knows.

Because clearly, we don't. We wouldn't have to ask if we did.

[Rev Solomon]

Just to be clear, the point of this conversation is to open up new avenues for developing Jedi characters to 1) find the Wheel and 2) progress as Jedi. The biggest barrier to Master/Padawan RPing has never been a disparity between the characters; it's the problem of one side or the other not following through. When the Padawan drops out, it's frustrating, but the Master usually has other directions to go. When the Master drops out, there's usually nothing left for the Padawan.

Ever since the GJO, the default Open thread in the Jedi Temple/Wheel has been "Character A wanders the halls late at night and stumbles into a serendipitous conversation" or "Character A is training alone and somebody joins in." Not surprisingly, these sorts of threads get old after a while. It's one thing to say RPers just need to get more creative, but new posters are always going to look at existing threads as models for new ones.

Maybe the more experienced posters - Padawans as well as Knights - need to set examples of the different things we can do in this sandbox we call The Wheel. Maybe examples like these?

EDIT: The above FAQ idea is not a bad one at all. There's a lot to like about the Wheel, but the reason I took so long to get involved with the Jedi post-reset was that, quite honestly, I had no idea how. All my ideas ground to a halt because the other parties disappeared. That's a big reason why I'm no longer playing Kale - I couldn't establish any sort of continuity with him, and now I'd have to re-imagine him almost completely to get him to fit in.

[Garen Thane]

Poor Kale and Lorca. *moment of silence for those no longer with us*

I like to imagine that Lilaena killed them both.

j/k


Anyway, Serena was Morgan Evanar's master (still is technically and will be again I hope!), and you can't get much more different in terms of personality. And when she's rescued and gets back, I'm thinking that she'll take on more padawan learners, even a grumpy Amos if that's what's needed.

Disparity between teachers and students may not be what was acceptable in the Republic days, but I think it makes for good RPs. That way maybe the padawan can teach the Knight/Master something too, you know?

I hate training threads with a passion, and rarely do them. I'd rather do threads with the padawan character and make them interesting. Like mission threads, or just-trying-to-survive threads.

If you're a padawan in a random Wheel RP with others, then go ahead and say "I've been learning this, watch!" (or imply that in your descriptions) and use new powers your character has been working on in their youngling/padawan classes. Just don't say you've just learned a master level something like Force lightning.

I dunno, there seems to be a lot of frustration in this thread. Serena officially gives you all a hug.