The Dark Knight Rises (2012)

[Droo]

If you go back to my earlier post with the huge swathe of spoiler tags, this is actually only one gripe out of a whole bunch. Most of them are (as you put it) levelled at things that we did see. This just happens to be the only gripe that has been directly reacted to thus far.

Yes, I read it. My comment regarding "a lot of your criticism being levelled at what we don't see" was in reference to the discussion at hand, and even in stating that I was careful not to say "all of your criticism".

On the matters of Bane and Miranda, I am in agreement that neither character was executed as well as they perhaps could've been. However, from the beginning, I never percieved Bane as anything much more than a big thug carrying out a well-organised plan. He never came across as particularly sharp or intelligent, just driven. I know it looked like it was all his idea in the beginning, but when we find out the truth, I felt like it made more sense, considering the character as he was presented to me. And I felt that, while brief and almost tacked on, the backstory between him and Talia allowed them a moment of convincing tenderness. And considering neither character was particularly well fleshed out at all, to see that was of some small relief.

Speaking of things being tacked on, the romance between Miranda and Bruce, if it can be called that, felt like nothing short of lip-service. In fact, had it merely been an instance of lip-service, a flash of lust between these characters, then I could've bought that. But then it was played up a little too much, like had this deep connection, probably to imply that Wayne was getting over the loss of Rachael, but it wasn't necessary. His last scene saw to that. Saving the Talia revelation for so late in the game meant that we didn't get to see much of the real character at all, and what glimpses I saw I liked. Marion Cotillard does crazy very well. And I agree with Jace, it was a complete waste to stuff her in a truck thereafter.

[Captain Untouchable]

However, [spoiler]from the beginning, I never percieved Bane as anything much more than a big thug carrying out a well-organised plan.

I guess maybe this is a "coming into the story with prior knowledge" scenario, then. Perhaps I optimistically saw hints at Bane being more than that. We certainty didn't get any hints early on that it wasn't his plan, so it seemed to me as if he'd maybe cooked it up on his own to begin with. That made me hope that they'd got some of the Bane being clever stuff in there - some of his plans were pretty cunning - but it was ultimately undermined.

It was certainly a better portrayal of Bane than in Batman & Robin, but I still don't think that movie makers quite "get" the character: he's meant to be the epitomy of brawn and brains. After taking the Joker and making him more than just an insane clown, it's a shame that Nolan didn't manage to take Bane and make him more than just a giant brute.

Justice League: Doom is a good (animated) movie adaptation with a much better portrayal of Bane. That gives you a sense of how Bane works; it takes the "Your punishment must be more severe" mentality, but attacks Bruce mentally and emotionally with just as much ferocity as he attacks him physically.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I don't think that the movie made Bane seem not-smart (certainly not dumb) - I got the idea that it was a partnership between him and Talia, not that she called the shots and he was just following orders.

[Droo]

I didn't think he was dumb, but he definately lacked that sharpness of character possessed by Ra's, Joker, Two Face, and even Talia. Bane was like a brick wall that Batman came up against, a moving one at that, and he represented the challenge that highlighted the fact that perhaps the Dark Knight's best days were behind him. Of every villain in Nolan's films, I found Bane the weakest.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I didn't really find Bane's motivation very convincing, honestly. The other villains felt like fully formed people with understandable, if irrational, driving forces behind them, but Bane just felt a bit flat for me. I still really enjoyed the film though

[Captain Untouchable]

I'm certainly not calling Bane dumb. He just wasn't the genius level intellect that he's "meant" to be. The fact that he's brains wrapped in brawn is his defining feature in the comics: I don't feel that was adequately portrayed. *shrug*

As for the other stuff I mentioned, I found this really interesting editorial written by a "civilian" / member of the public over at ComicBookMovie.com, which looks at the themes that were set up in The Dark Knight, and whether or not TDKR was in keeping with those.

[Captain Untouchable]

These are always fun.



"The epic final chapter that will mildly entertain you when you're watching it, but will ultimately anger and disappoint you when you actually start thinking about it." -- Sounds about right.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

This comes out on DVD/Blu-Ray today.