Originals vs. the Prequels

[jediSamson]

Plot holes??


i'll give you Maul dying like an idiot, but the others I don't get it, but to each their own , I just find that many fans had their own preconcieved notion on what they should have been and when Lucas didn't give them what THEY thought it should be they got all tore up, but it's all good we/they are /were allowed too

[JMK]

Originally posted by Michele Hawkins
Because for some, it shattered what the Star Wars prequels were suppose to be like.

Anakin as a kid
Midicholrians
Gungans
Maul dying like an idiot





twitch

The plot holes for me were painful and I pretend the EP1 and 2 don't exists except in a shortened version inside my head

Don't forget bad acting, bad dialogue, bad directing, bad pacing, bad acting, stupid ideas, overused bad characters and underused cool characters.

[jediSamson]

Originally posted by JMK
Don't forget bad acting, bad dialogue, bad directing, bad pacing, bad acting, stupid ideas, overused bad characters and underused cool characters.

Geesh, give a guy a all girl softball team, a mod position and it goes to his head O_o next he'll be saying Bea arthur isn't hot

[Lamar Starworth]

I wasn't born to the nostalgia of the Originals. I saw them before the Prequels, but that was in the 90s and that definately doesn't count in comparsion to sitting in line for what is the greatest movie of all time feeling.

So Im falling off the fence with a touch of the breeze toward the prequels in many way because it is a modern movie, that to me holds up true to the feeling I get from the Originals. But I definately can see why people love the originals, I just don't hold the same nostalgic nature toward it that would make me care for them in the same way.

[CMJ]

This is how I rank them.

1.Empire Strikes Back
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. A New Hope
4. Attack of the Clones
5. Return of the Jedi
6. The Phantom Menace

So going off that I'd give the slight edge to the originals. Plus there's the nostalgia thing. However, I find the prequels far more interesting thematically than the originals.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I need to re-watch them all. Its been much too long...

[Ramoth Ocran]

I'll take this time to point out that New Hope and all the Prequels were all directed by George Lucas. ESB and ROTJ were both produced by George Lucas, but not directed by him. There's a noticeable difference.

Here is how I rank the Star Wars movies and why:

1. Empire Strikes Back-I enjoyed the story, the acting...mostly, and the first real lightsaber duel in the Trilogy.
2. Return of the Jedi-Again, the story, the acting...more than in ESB, good large-scale battles, and favorite lightsaber duel of Star Wars, Vader vs. Luke while the Emperor watches.
3. Revenge of the Sith-Good backgrounds, excellent lightsaber duels and force power graphics.
4. Attack of the Clones-not so great dialogue lines on Anikan and Padme's part (not to mention unconvincing acting by Anikan). Severly disliked reappearance of Jar-Jar Binks. Enjoyed duel against Dooku and that entire battle sequence. Enjoyed Obi-Wan's acting.
5. New Hope-actually it's a toss-up between AOTC and ANH for 4th. Didn't like all of Mark Hamill's acting near the beginning...his voice gets on my nerves at times. Enjoyed Harrison Ford's acting the most.
6. Phantom Menace-...hated this movie. Bad acting, mostly bad actors, Jar-Jar Binks, bad dialogue. The only things that save this movie in my mind are Darth Maul and subsequent fights, and Obi-Wan.

[Kale]

I have a hard time looking on the prequels as much more than a flop in terms of storytelling.

I realize I'm in a minority, but I believe that TPM was decent. I liked finally getting to see a Master and Padawan in action on screen. The Padme storyline, while predictable, was executed very well. Aside from the question of why Naboo seems to think adolescent girls make the best heads of state, I could believe the character as a girl in a terrible situation doing her best to help her people. TPM told its own story, which was something neither of the other two prequels did, and I think it came closer than either of the others to the sense of fun and adventure that characterized the original trilogy.

AotC is by far the worst, and I really can't stand to watch it anymore. It does nothing to advance the story beyond the key plot points we all know had to happen anyway. We get no reasonable appreciation for Obi-Wan's relationship with Anakin. We're told Anakin is a promising Padawan and really never see any evidence of that. Padme's character becomes completely flat. For every cringeworthy moment in TPM, there's at least one in AotC to match it -- try Dexter, or any of the romance scenes, or "He's holding me BACK!", or that terrible factory scene. There are two bright spots -- Obi-Wan's duel with Jango, and the asteroid battle. The climactic battles at the end drag on too long and are generally uninspiring.

I was impressed by RotS the first time I saw it, mainly because of how much better it was than AotC -- but, still, I hesitate to put it very far above TPM. I could never shake the feeling that Lucas was just finishing off the story we all knew rather than telling us a new one. As a result, we still have a lot of plot details that are painfully forced -- the Jedi's stupidity, Anakin's gullibility, and his remarkably quick change of heart ("Kill a bunch of children? Sure!"). Even Yoda demonstrates an appalling lack of observation and sensitivity when he blows off Anakin's confession, turning what could have been a great, complex scene into another naked plot device.

When I look at the prequels, I see a lot of wasted potential. I think the biggest problem is Episode II. It obliterates any continuity from I to III and leaves far too much of the story untold. So by the time we get to III, we have an unnuanced and hurried narrative of the events we all knew had to happen anyway. RotS makes up for some of those shortcomings with some beautiful visuals and powerful emotional moments, but those just don't make up for a story I find largely uncompelling.

[JMK]

I have a hard time looking on the prequels as much more than a flop in terms of storytelling.

I realize I'm in a minority, but I believe that TPM was decent. I liked finally getting to see a Master and Padawan in action on screen. The Padme storyline, while predictable, was executed very well. Aside from the question of why Naboo seems to think adolescent girls make the best heads of state, I could believe the character as a girl in a terrible situation doing her best to help her people. TPM told its own story, which was something neither of the other two prequels did, and I think it came closer than either of the others to the sense of fun and adventure that characterized the original trilogy.

AotC is by far the worst, and I really can't stand to watch it anymore. It does nothing to advance the story beyond the key plot points we all know had to happen anyway. We get no reasonable appreciation for Obi-Wan's relationship with Anakin. We're told Anakin is a promising Padawan and really never see any evidence of that. Padme's character becomes completely flat. For every cringeworthy moment in TPM, there's at least one in AotC to match it -- try Dexter, or any of the romance scenes, or "He's holding me BACK!", or that terrible factory scene. There are two bright spots -- Obi-Wan's duel with Jango, and the asteroid battle. The climactic battles at the end drag on too long and are generally uninspiring.

I was impressed by RotS the first time I saw it, mainly because of how much better it was than AotC -- but, still, I hesitate to put it very far above TPM. I could never shake the feeling that Lucas was just finishing off the story we all knew rather than telling us a new one. As a result, we still have a lot of plot details that are painfully forced -- the Jedi's stupidity, Anakin's gullibility, and his remarkably quick change of heart ("Kill a bunch of children? Sure!"). Even Yoda demonstrates an appalling lack of observation and sensitivity when he blows off Anakin's confession, turning what could have been a great, complex scene into another naked plot device.

When I look at the prequels, I see a lot of wasted potential. I think the biggest problem is Episode II. It obliterates any continuity from I to III and leaves far too much of the story untold. So by the time we get to III, we have an unnuanced and hurried narrative of the events we all knew had to happen anyway. RotS makes up for some of those shortcomings with some beautiful visuals and powerful emotional moments, but those just don't make up for a story I find largely uncompelling.

This is probably the most well reasoned post from a prequel detractor that I've read. Of course I don't make it a habit to read every single person's opinion on the movies, I do think many points were valid. Though I disagree with some things, I can see where and why some people would not like it.

Where you and I differ on TPM is the fact that it does tell its own story. I find it contributes very very little to the Star Wars story. It introduces some important characters, but that's it. I find it starts too far in advance of AotC to be very cohesive.

I enjoyed AotC more than TPM, but I haven't watched either in a long, long time. I just find very few bright spots in those movies that merit me sitting for 2 hours. The romance scenes were dreadful, and I agree about the battle of Geonosis...it was far too long. I'm not even a big fan of Yoda vs Dooku.

I could never shake the feeling that Lucas was just finishing off the story we all knew rather than telling us a new one.

I think I see what you're saying, but I think another way to say it is that everything feels rushed. in the prequels. Everything in the OT feels like it progressed naturally. Things in the prequels just seemed to happen in the blink of an eye, when in reality they would take a heck of a lot longer. What am I referring to?

In TPM

- Valorum was ousted, Palpatine was in - seemingly the next day (I know it wasn't, but it felt that way). Surely such a controversial topic would play itself out over months - if not years in a society with thousands of senators?

- Sio Bibble with his plea for help....the people of Naboo were suffering, it was a catastrophy....why weren't we privy to this suffering? I found it difficult to believe that such a horrid incident took place on Naboo - there was NEVER any evidence of it.

- The Jedi council decision to let Anakin be trained by Obi Wan. This one is a real head-scratcher. They KNEW that this kid had issues - yet they agreed to let his first teachings as a Jedi to be handled by a newly minted Jedi Knight. Why in the world couldn't Yoda, or some other Master take on Anakin as a padawan for a while - considering it was determined that he some sort of prophetic savior? What a stupid choice - and not stupid because the Jedi were arrogant, stupid on Lucas' part for thinking we'd actually believe that as a reasonable course of action for the frickin JEDI COUNCIL! How'd they get that far with a bunch of idiots running the show?

In AotC

- The romance. Wow. Brutal is about all I can say. When you look at the arc of their relationship, it's a nice story. When you look at how it was executed on screen - it's like 'huh? She loves him? When did that happen?' Through the first part of the movie, and all the way until the arena scene when she spills the beans - I never got the sense that Padme was reluctantly falling for Anakin - although I knew that that was what was supposed to be what was happening. One minute she's telling him that he's nuts, the next she's all about getting married and jeopardizing everything. Please explain.

- The creation of the clone army. The explanation of Sifo Dyas ordering the army is so unclear it's crazy. And the fact that the Kaminoans not once tried to initiate contact with the council in the 10 years since the order was placed...a little odd, no? Especially since the clones were ready?

- The battle at the end...IMO it suffers from the same problems as the space battle from TPM - there's no tension, it was so uncompelling. Flashy and neat to look at, but that's it. And where did the Jedi learn to be such great generals? While they were bungling things with Anakin & too blind to see the corruption in the senate, we're they playing Risk in the council chambers? Is that where they learned military tactics? Must be.


RotS

- As Kale said, Anakin's gullibility, the dopeyness of the Jedi...the willingness of the entire galaxy to submit to a dictator...none of it makes sense, or at least it wasn't executed to make sense. Too much was left to the hard core fan to understand on their own.

Even Yoda demonstrates an appalling lack of observation and sensitivity when he blows off Anakin's confession, turning what could have been a great, complex scene into another naked plot device.

When I look at the prequels, I see a lot of wasted potential. I think the biggest problem is Episode II. It obliterates any continuity from I to III and leaves far too much of the story untold. So by the time we get to III, we have an unnuanced and hurried narrative of the events we all knew had to happen anyway. RotS makes up for some of those shortcomings with some beautiful visuals and powerful emotional moments, but those just don't make up for a story I find largely uncompelling

I find this to be a very accurate, and true account of some of the flaws in the prequels, not just RotS.

Naked plot devices - the prequels are jam packed with them. Hurried narrative, that's exactly what I mean when I say that everything feels rushed in episodes 1-3. IMO Lucas could have either started the prequels with Anakin as a 12 year old instead of a 9 year old, and skip the whole little boy thing - or he could have taken the longer, and more painful route and fleshed out the prequels properly - by making the prequels #1-6, and changing the OT from 7-9. But I do see why that wouldn't and couldn't work. People would have been all over him for sucking people dry with 3, and Lucas has a penchant for symmetry. 3 originals, 3 prequels.

In the end, I still like the prequels, I just see less reasons to like them than I do the OT. They could have been a lot better IMO. A LOT better. I think if they had taken the same approach with the prequels as they did with the originals (Lucas' story - but others handle the script & directing) things would have turned out a lot differently. As it stands I believe that Lucas was too concerned with the technical aspects of the movie - the sounds, the effects...and I don't think he needed to be to micromanagerial for that. Effects can be reworked and redone and rereleased but you can't reshoot the scenes once the film has been released.